Spirits and Spirits - Episode 12

From communion wine to Manischewitz, alcohol shows up in some of our most sacred and social rituals, but the
way we each experience it can be wildly different. In this episode, Maxine and Isabelle take a funny, honest look
at alcohol, religion, and tradition, from hosting styles (never wanting the party to end vs. leaving at 9:30 sharp) to
completely opposite feelings about Easter: the pastels, food, and clothing!
They explore the contradictions between what religion teaches and what culture practices, share stories of
navigating unfamiliar traditions (including a very eye-opening first Passover), and reflect on how their relationship
with alcohol has shifted - from cycles of fasting and overindulgence to something far more intentional and
CONSISTENT!
Along the way, they also touch on friendships, what falls away, what deepens, and amazing NEW community!

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast and to visit our website at:
www.happyafpodcast.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi, everybody. Welcome to Happy AF. I am Maxine. I am happy alcohol free. And I'm Isabel, and I'm happy as fuck. We are. We are. We're, you know, we're happy, go-lucky people. Um, it is uh let's start off with let's drink something.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Yeah, well, first, man, you're worse than I am. I was gonna say, how are you? But I'm glad that you're jumping to the booze.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

No, because I've actually not had this one. And this is our liquid joy segment. Um, I've never had this one, so I'm dying to taste it. Right, so uh you and I have our priorities straight. Yeah, absolutely. Let's get a drink and a bottle. Actually, before you pour it up. No, before you pour it, I'm gonna tell you about the glass you're gonna pour it in.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Oh, because those are the perfect breasts fit in these? Oh my god. You remember like the old uh Marie Anternat? So, well, mine They're too small for it. So about yours, mine's a lot of things. Mine actually fits perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Um, first of all, I want to talk about this glass because they were just gifted to me by a wonderful new fan who is in our happy AF listener pod. Um, and she gave me this and she was like, I I want you to drink out of these. They're so beautiful. And they are they're they're this like, you know, cute color, beautiful color. They look so retro to me. Like right there. Um and oh gosh, I mean, I washed them, but I didn't take this sticker off. Oh, oop.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Okay, this is mouthblown glass. Oh my shit. They're mouthblown. You know, I can go south real fast with that, right? I'm gonna let that slide. I'm gonna let the mouth blown slide. Yeah, you're not. You're not letting me know.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Okay, but look how beautiful these are. They are. Aren't they gorgeous? Okay, so what is it?

SPEAKER_01 1:43

It's so funny that I did not know they were mouthblown, and the first thing I did is jammed them on my boobs. Uh this is what I'm saying. Listen, man. I once you're broken, you're broken forever. So let's talk about this non-booze booze here. Yes, naughty. Naughty. So I've used so they use, I have a feeling it's the same one, but that they change a label. You might have seen it with a red label with black lettering. Yes. And they have a sparkling. Yes, they do too. Yes. And they're the red lettering naughty one is a Shiraz or Shiraz. Same. Same difference. Um, and that is two, but I think there could be a little coup of marketing that they're saying that this one specifically has been our age and French oak. I would feel the other one too, but you know, who knows? Okay. At least now they're letting us know.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

But listen, I like that label. And also for our people who are listening and not watching, it is called naughty N-O-U-G-H-T-Y.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Oh, it's naughty N-A-U-G-H-T I. Oh, is there a difference? What's it? What does this one mean? How do you spell naughty? N-A-U-G-N-Y. Yeah, naughty means you're being naughty. Yes. I mean, I think it's the play on words. Got it, got it. So there, it's a little play on words. Look at you, you're so smart. Well, no. Thank you. Uh, and it's pretty questioning my ability to spell. Let's taste it. I will I will be honest that I've had it and I liked it. Oh, good. And by the way, for those who look how pretty it is in that lab. Super pretty. And those are my mindful of sugars, because a lot of people are, not just for diets, but also taste. Like I don't like. Something too sweet. Too sweet. So this one is really not horrible. It's got it's more than others and I drink, but it's only four grams per half a cup. Okay. Okay, so the whole bottle has got 20 grams. That's less than a can of Coca-Cola by a lot, by the way. Yeah, by a lot.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Cheers. Naughty wine in our very pretty glasses. In our mouthblown glass. By the way.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Oh my gosh. Smells like booze. Right? Smells like wine. Brooks the other day had another one of my wine and smelled it, and he said, I'll be honest, I can't tell the difference between yours and mine.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Let's cheers to the fact that we agree on this because we disagree on a lot of the lines.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

This one's good, right? Love. Yeah, Shiraz. A good one. And I think I'm pretty sure it's made in California.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Okay, love it, love it, love it. Yeah. This will be great with dinner, but nice with cheese. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, and they have they use a malolactic fermentation and they get the alkalize. Uh yep. So I think it's really good. And they're they're a good brand. Um, yep, so that's it. So I'm super happy. That is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

So, okay, actually, the last time I saw you was at my St. Patrick's Day party. So much fun. Which was so much fun. But again, what's becoming more and more interesting to me is how many people drank non-alcoholic wine and and beer.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Insane. And and I'm not gonna talk about that because it's for the next episode, but I have so much discovery on that subject, but we'll leave that for later, right? And not only that, not only did I at your party, which was awesome, I'm so glad I arrived early. So, for those who don't know, I'm the epitome of uncool. I arrive, if I arrive on time, that's actually a little late. So I'm the asshole that arrives five minutes early. I can't help myself to disease. But the benefit of that, not besides pissing off the host, is that I guess to see the decoration and before like everybody spoils it, right? And so the house was like all decorated with beautiful, like everywhere. But it was really pretty, it wasn't cheesy Irish, like it wasn't just like bald, like it was pretty.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

I'm really specific. It was pretty much as everybody learned from you know, two episodes ago.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

And the food was some of the food was matching, like there were cookies and things, and they were matching the color theme. And I was like, wow, that's like a Martha Stewart like spread. It was really pretty, and the people were very pretty too. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

We had a lot of great people at the party, and um, you know, what's amazing? So we started the party, it was a Friday, and we started it because I was traveling until I started at five o'clock. Yeah, that's right. I was in but I was there at five. I was at you, but I was at there sometimes and you were like, where is everybody? And like no, they'll be here. Um and it was kind of one of those rolling arrival situations because of how early it is. And if you have if you have an office job that requires you and you don't have schedule flexibility, then you know, five o'clock is early for a party. It is. Um, but uh, you know, the beauty of that is people are gone at nine o'clock.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Oh my God. So as we've talked about, I think you were gone at eight o'clock. Oh shit. I've I was gone at uh what are you talking about? I was done at 7:30, I was out of there. We had dinner at home. Um, no, we've talked about that before, where it used to be, and I don't know if it's age that's helped me or stopping drinking. I have a feeling it's both, right? But my anxiety for me, like, and my sister's the one who put words to this. I never put words to this before. But she's like, you know what? I know, Isabel, you're bullion and you're exuberant, but she's like, you're socially anxious, you're always the first one to go. And if people come over to my house, now I'm better. But it used to be they would stress me out before they come, thinking, fuck, what time are they gonna leave? Are they gonna stay late? Are they gonna stay late? I don't want them to stay late. I want to be in bed at 11. Like, you know what I'm saying? Whereas now I I'm people know, I put it out there. I'm like, listen, and and if it's going too long, I'm like clap, clap, clap, everybody needs to do a half hour, right? Yes. But it used to be an anxiety of mine. Um, but now that I don't drink, I don't, I'm maybe I own it better. Yeah, I don't push to the way.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, well, I was talking to a friend of mine about this the other day um in the 50s club, right? Once you've I feel like your your I don't give a fucks are are just it's everywhere. And so now I'm like, but I think it's funny that you're talking about you used to have anxiety about people staying on leaving. Right. I used to have anxiety about people leaving too early. And it used to freak me out because I was there to, on the nights that I was hosting an event, I'm like, we are in, okay? I need you to roll up your sleeves. This is a marathon. Oh my god, you're like my step-mother-in-law. Sprint. I am like, we are here. There is going to be different there's gonna be cocktails, then we're gonna sit, then there's gonna be after dinner drinks, there's there's gonna be around the fire, and there's gonna be stories, there might be music. Like, my my nice.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

I'm like, where's my Alexa Pro? Holy fuck. My stepmother-in-law, Patricia, whom I love, and she's British. And do you know how many times I've made her mad or hurt her feelings? Because she's so that's what it is. You just made me realize I would basically like rain on our parade. Like she'd be hosting, and she loves having parties, just like you. And at 9:30 or 10, and when I was on the sauce, even I'd be like, I'm out, I'm going to bed. She would be pissed, and I'm stubborn. I'd be fucked that. I'm going to bed. Right. I don't care. And I would just go. And the next day I would not stop hearing about it, and it would piss her off. And that's why. Yeah, because she had a plan.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

And here's the other thing that used to happen to me, and I love to tr throw like really nice dinner parties. Oh, you go all out. So, you know, with my table, and I get you know I've got things that are are scheduled out. And then someone at the dinner table, if it's like 10 or 12 people, gets up to go home, then it's like it's like you're breaking the energy. You're breaking this thing that we've created together. And then I would get really upset because then one person would get up to go, and someone else would be like, oh yeah, you know, and I'm like, sit down, it's not over. I would tell you when you're leaving. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

You would I would have had to go to your party so medicated. I would have had to be, first of all, I would have already shown showed up a little drunk because I used to always drink before I went somewhere. I mean, because it was always too late for me anyway. I always started drinking early, but I would have doubled up on the Lexapro for sure. I would have been like, fuck man. First of all, I have like, I'm not a communal person. I'm highly like, not egotistical, I don't think, but I'm very individual. Like community, like that's one of the things about yoga that rubs me the wrong way. All this togetherness. I'm like, fuck, leave me the shit alone. Like, like it wouldn't be over. Like I have to be communing, and if we have a community around the dinner and I have to stay a certain time, that's like being on a fucking cruise, bro. Like, no. That's hysterical. So glad you're off the sauce. Oh, I learned a new one.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

No, but I still am like that. I'm like, don't leave. Are you joking? I mean, well, listen, I I I want you out of my house at a certain time, but I still said so. Not before I'm done with all of the things that I have planned for the event. You have no idea what was coming down the line. Well, now I just start the dinners at 5 30. So that's fine. Right? But this was people coming for cocktails at 6 30. We're not even sitting down to the dinner table until 8 o'clock. Then dessert's not coming till 10. Oh my god. And then I've got dessert wine. And then I've got usually I've got some kind of um dinner party game or conversation.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Are you also changing dress?

SPEAKER_02 10:53

No, no, actually, usually in the same, usually in the same outfits. But yes, you know me too well. I love a costume change in the middle of anything. Um so yeah, that's funny that we're the same, we're so different about that. Um, but speaking speaking of elaborate um tablescapes, it's uh Easter is my absolute favorite. Oh god, there we go.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

You have to bring it up, right? That's why I'm wearing black. And I love that you are like the Grinch for Easter. Oh, there's a whole reasoning why I hate Easter so much.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Like there's a past seated which you are there's I love that you are in pretty much black head to toe. So well, look at me in my pastel. Well, first of all, my light blue jeans.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Baby Jesus did die, so I'm honoring that by wearing some black. And by the way, I never wear pink, but I'm wearing pink glasses just for you. Okay, I love it. But here's the Easter, since we're gonna talk about religion and booze, here's why I have a deep-seated dislike for Easter. And actually, this is not something I'm saying at an older age to be funny. I had this conversation with my mom earlier this week. She's like, Oh, I remember when it started. You must have been seven or eight. Like, so it's been a long time I dislike Easter. So here we are. Okay. First of all, having grown up in the 70s in Montreal, when we were still highly, highly strongly Catholic. Yes. There's a couple of things that were really sucked about Easter. Number one, on the five channels that were French, all you could watch from Thursday to fucking Sunday was The Life of Jesus that was filmed in the 1960s that used to be originally black and white, and they slapped some color on it. And I still have the music etch in my head. Anyways, it's very depressing when he's dragging his ass up the mountain with the cross, the whole thing. And I remember being a young child being like, this sucks, right? You can't watch anything else. Number one. Number two, it's the worst weather. It's always around March or April, where if you're from this part of the world, it's great, it's muddy, it's cold, it's gross, it's everything, right? Number three, it's a highly religious holiday. I never liked religion. Religion always depressed me. I didn't like priests, I didn't like going to church. I didn't like none of it. So that suck. Number four, wow. It was oh, there's a whole reason. I did not start disliking Easter on the whim. This this is a well-thought process. You're not gonna dislike the the most important holiday of a religion without really giving it some some thought, right? Yeah, and I see you've put thought into it. Number four, you feel like you need to write a book. No, the culture in French Canada anywhere in those times was on Easter, you would buy something new, like months and ahead, that you would save and you would wear. Wear, yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And obviously, your mom would always buy the perfect little dress because as much as we wanted, we wanted it to be spring. But spring isn't like you live in fucking LA, not spring, like you're in my so your mom would buy an outfit as though you're living in California, okay? So now you're putting this fucking like thing that you've been watching for a month, dreaming of it. It's like 45 degrees outside, it's muddy, and you have to wear it with fucking like big socks and big boots, and you're pasta fucking purple little shit, right? It used to piss the shit out of me. I was like, why am I freezing? And plus, a little dress for spring is ugly in a parkour. Like it doesn't work, right? And it used to make me so mad, it was so inconsequential. So that was a problem. Then back then, pastels were not what they are today. You are wearing pastels which are delicious, they have a cream tone to them. Yeah, their texture. Back in the day, pastel was that ugly, like baby blue, baby pink, like the ugly kind that you can sell Walmart, sorry, Walmart, like just ugly pastels. And that was the theme, right? And then they would drag your ass to church and it was long, and the whole place was in purple. Okay. And then I hate brunch. And Easter was brunch, right? And I'm hungry when I get up first thing in the morning. I want three square meals. I want a breakfast, I want a lunch, and I want a dinner. I don't want to skip breakfast so that I can have an early lunch. Jam it into lunch. Right, okay. And I don't like ham. And I don't like sweets. Okay. So can you imagine what Easter meant for a kid like me? It was just I couldn't wait for Christmas. Hated it. To this day, I don't like it. So I just don't like it. I need to drink to this. There's a lot. There's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Are you coming to Easter? My Easter, I'm asking.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

No. So by the way, I'm gonna be in Canada and my mom, my mom's so funny. Called me the other day. She's like, I think you're gonna be really happy. I've accepted brunch invitations from a bunch of girlfriends, so you can say thank you. I was like, I love you, mommy. She knows how much I fucking hate Easter. Otherwise, I'd have to go to Brandon.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

So that I'm off the hook. I feel like there is there's definitely more, there's so much that you've just unpacked about Easter.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Um the one thing I did like, yes, there was one thing. Tell me. Jesus from the 1960s, that hack that actor was good looking. Yes, yes, yes. He was good looking, but not hot enough. Like I had a big crush on John Baker from Chips. Remember Chips? I remember, yeah. We didn't really have that, I don't think in a while. So he I could watch for hours on end, but Jesus was hot enough that I could watch him for, you know, half hour. Not a whole weekend, though, not a whole weekend. This is a weekend. No, no, it was over.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Do you remember those movies were like three hours ago?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Oh, they are etching my mind forever. They weren't not three hours in Montreal, they were three days. First of all, you have the Good Friday one, and they would go on a on a bow, right? Nonstop. Yeah, and and Good Friday, I didn't mind. Number one, there was no brunch involved. Yes. Number two, there was no communal thing. You just hung out with your family.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Friday has always been a favorite of mine. And I'm not a huge meat person, and I don't eat meat. Yeah. And you couldn't have either. So I was like, hey, man, you know, and and Easter started being okay with me when I started drinking. Because then I was like, I can wing brunch, like at least I wasn't the only one drinking, right? Yeah. That was the only thing that made it tolerable at the time.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Well, I am here to refute it all. Right. Okay. So why do you love Easter? I love Easter. I love Easter so clearly related to the fact that the run up to Easter is all the sacrifice time, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

So you like yourself a good sacrifice?

SPEAKER_02 17:33

So well I'm Catholic. What do you mean? Well, I'm I'm not I'm not practicing in that. Like like um uh you know, growing up no sweets, no candy. Right. And I was just talking about this because St. Patrick's Day always falls during Lent. Like it's always during Lent. Oh, that's like a karmic joke.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

You guys it is like you guys want to drink, like, but not you, because we now know it's it's American Irish that do that, but it's during Lent. And you can't.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

No, we do. You're allowed that day off. Actually, I mean there's two schools of thought.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

You know, I want to say, Catholics, don't they have a little sneaky way of putting exception to rules when it suits them?

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Oh, 100%. Well, listen, my dad was my dad was the hardcore rule guy. Got it. And very, I mean, I came from a very my family were incredibly religious growing up. There were rosaries where we were ring-needling. There was my grand, you know, my grandmother who lived with us for big chunks of time, um, prayed every day of her life twice a day in her room. Like my grandma, like really, really intense stuff. I went to a Catholic convent school, I went to mass, like it that's that's how we grew up. But my dad was the play by the rules when it came to religion. And so you weren't allowed to break your fast on St. Patrick's Day, but my mother was of the more relaxed school of thought, which was on St. Patrick's Day, the Irish were granted a special um pass on that day to break your fast. Got it. And and so my mother was just a soft, loving, kind, generous person, and my dad was like rules, rules, rules. And he would say And did she have the paperwork to corroborate that pass? No, no, but he had the kidding, he had this statement, right? Which was Jesus didn't get up from the mountain for a snack. Oh, I love that. I'm gonna use that. Jesus didn't come down for a snack. I'm gonna use that. Meanwhile, my mother would just be like passing me chocolate and things on the side. But then all the grown-ups would, most grown-ups would take a pass on their because a lot of people in Ireland would give up alcohol for Lent. And and so you would be given a pass on St. Patrick's Day to drink on St. Patrick's Day.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Maybe that ain't that explains the bevry, the the the debauchery in the United States for the drinking. No, but like maybe that's the history behind it. Like people are like, oh, I got a pass and they haven't drank all this time, so they're like, woo, let's like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

No, no, I will need to do a whole other podcast about how colonization and um messed up St. Patrick's dehumanizing Irish people is what led to the drunken stereotypes. As you can see, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

But I'm talking specifically about the drinking culture of St. Patrick's Day. Yes. Maybe that's from like not having drank for 20-some days or whatever, and you get that one day, so you have to pack it in. Yeah, but I mean, Americans don't don't. I don't know. We steal ever we steal everybody's good holidays. That's what we do. You're not we, you're a Canadian sport. I know, me too.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Listen, I'm I appropriate NFL. Yeah, I love it. But here's the thing about Easter. For me, and getting excited about Easter was always a combination of things. So from an early childhood, it was Easter eggs. So, like getting your Easter eggs on Easter Sunday, where you hadn't had, if you played by the rules, you hadn't had chocolate for 40. Well, and actually Lent is 47 days. Oh, um, which nobody tells you by the way. They talk about this 40 days, but when it includes all the weekends, 47 days. Oh god. Oh, but he uh but but getting break being able to break your fast. And then the same thing, I mean, in Ireland we don't have this climate, so there was a lot of spring coming by by Easter, real spring. And but same thing though, those those outfits that your parents, my mother used to get us, um the frills, with the frills, but I am a pastel lover, period. You know, like my room was so pink when I was growing up, like everything. So I just love the color palette. Right. And I'm also still at this point. I mean, I have a friend, we we celebrate Easter together, our families. We have Easter Eve. Like we have Oh Lord. Like so, you know, back in the day, obviously, no meat on Good Friday. And how To go to the stations of the cross. I mean, it is a very drab run-up to the holiday. Really? And then so then on Easter Sunday, it's like the whole um celebration of whether or not you're actually celebrating Jesus Christ as risen from the dead, or or you're just like, finally, I get to eat chocolate or I get to drink wine. And now, for no, no question, in my later life as a as a grown-up who gave up alcohol for East for Lent every year.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Oh, did you not just go all out? Oh, I went all out. I would have too. There's no fucking way I would have given alcohol for 40 business days.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Oh, I gave up alcohol for as long as I can remember on Lent. There's no way. So Easter Sunday to me was I mean, talk about the wheels coming off. I would have champagne like with breakfast.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

I would have dropped my motor, forget just the wheels.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

So absolutely that element of celebration. Um, and then, and I do love a table. So, you know, the table at Easter, and we've got all the little mini eggs, and all my special china and silver comes out, and all the pastel plates and napkins and bunnies, and I mean, I am so in. So, my Easter is literally your worst nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

And not only that, I need to say about your table escape, which is was so funny because I knew it was gonna happen and it did. So you came over to our house, and so the Maxine's table is like a party on escape. It's like going to seven um, you know, the Montangrus, how do you call these things? Like going to Disneyland and Disney World, like in the castle, you know, like it's got everywhere you look, there's something new and sparkly and beautiful that matches the next thing next to it that's also sparkly and new. And and she comes to our house for dinner with other friends, and and I remember thinking, wow, she's gonna have a fucking shock. Like it's a wood table, it's beautiful, rustic shock paper napkins. And I remember when I put the paper napkins. I I do remember, I put them down, I remember thinking, huh, maybe I should buy linen. I was like, fuck it, man. That's me. She's gonna have to like find out. And you I don't love you any less than love you more. But the the re it wasn't that I I it was I wasn't like I felt judged. I was like, fuck, man, we're really attached at the brain level because she picked the napkin, she's like, hey, this was great. Next time we'll bring in linen. I was like, I was like, I'm gonna gift you something. That one thing that I thought about, it was so funny. So you do put the most beautiful tables ever.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah, and that's what I mean. I kind of love that about Easter and the and the traditions of it. But now, like, I remember my first alcohol-free Easter. I don't know, is this my second one or this this will be my second one? So last year was just my first one, and I do remember and I remember talking to Andrew about this. Like, I used to get so excited on Easter Saturday on the night before. Right, because I make this candy bar for my children, which looks like something out of Dylan's candy shop. Okay, oh my god. It is ridiculous. I will send you a picture of this. Okay. It is so many kinds of chocolate, and by the way, I mean this chocolate's coming in from Europe. Yeah. Because I cannot be dealing with Hershey bar made. But they've taken over Cadbury's in America, so even the Cadbury's mini eggs do not taste the same. So I have to get them from the Food Ireland shops or whatever. And and my friends who we celebrate, they used to go skiing in Switzerland and they would bring back Swiss chocolate and so it's just the shickly. And then, of course, I have to have peeps, just because my children love peeps. Those peeps, those are those ugly, awful marshmallow things. Talk about the disgusting colors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like they're bunny rabbits and chickens and keeps that. They have to be there for display. Right. But so at night, when the kids go to bed, I still do this, even though they're teenagers. When they go to bed, I put out the candy display. Right. Which is this beautiful, beautiful, there's flowers and daffodils and candy everywhere you look. Um, and I used to get so excited, and then I would go to bed and go, and tomorrow morning, mommy gets her shampoo. Yeah, so did you not get wasted? Because now you'd start early, which you weren't.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

No, I wouldn't break it until Easter Sunday. Right, but on the Sunday, would you not start at brunch time? Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

So wouldn't you not get wasted? Like if you went all day. Here's the thing it's a big eating holiday too. So like you could have been. But but I would have Easter lunch. Right. I wouldn't really make it brunch.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

The thing is when you have such a big meal in the middle of the day with wine. Anyways, for me, it's that's when it starts and it's gonna stop when I go to bed. Yeah. I'm gonna keep munching and drinking, and the munching is just so I can keep drinking. I'll be very honest. Uh used to, until I go to bed. And then you like the next day, you don't have a hangover, but you feel like heavy and bloated.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah, yeah, no, no question, because you're eating too much and drinking too much. Yeah. And that was also the holiday um that we would with there was a wine, there is a wine that we still collect because Andrew still drinks wine called Hanzel Vineyards out in um Sonoma. And we went there together when I was out on tour in California and and started collecting it many, many years ago. And we are on their um assignment. So we get assigned three bottles of shard and three bottles of Pinot Noir, and it's really, really delicious, yeah, small production wine. And that was another ritual we had. We would open our Hanzel Pinot Noir and our Hansel Chardonnay on that day. And I remember, you know, with many of these things, and and I say this to anyone who asks me, how do you how did you do it? Like, how did you break the rituals, the traditions? You don't know you can do it until you do it. So if you had told me a couple of years ago that I would have I would have alcohol-free, boo-free, sober Easters, I would have thought it was impossible.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

And and you're right. And the thing is also, then that makes me think of something we're gonna talk in more detail a little bit later, but not to sound like a broken record, but for me, anyways, the non-alcoholic beverages have saved my rituals. And one of the things is that that's where I disagreed with Annie Grace in her book. There's one part I disagreed with where she was saying that they sold us the taste of wine that it's actually not that good, that you know, people couldn't differentiate. I highly disagree with that because by the way, I can't wait. So, right, so when you de-alkalize the wine, it still retains a lot of the flavor. But alas, by removing the alcohol, which is a lot you lose a lot of the polyphenols, which give a lot of aromas, you know, even if you're being very delicate, you're gonna lose some, right? And that's why they taste great, but they're not tasting as complex as wines that have alcohol in it, right? So the alcohol is something you get addicted to, and we know all the stuff that it does make you feel like shit. But if tomorrow morning they God came down and, you know, if all the fucking like Easter have given to God, because I believe in God, it's just not the Catholic thing, I think it should meet that, you should give me that solid. Like you should find a way to tell the folks like at the Hansel, if they if I someone found a way to keep these wines completely intact without the alcohol but the exact same. Jesus, Lord have mercy. Like, oh my God. Because so the other day I had an incidence, and I'll talk about it later, where I could not get non-alcoholic wine, and I usually can. And this was a place where I could not, and I came back home, I told Brooks, so I thought, oh, I'm now addicted to non-alcoholic wine, like psychologically, right? Because I go out of my way to get it. And I realized, no, it's not an addiction, it's something I really enjoy. Because the difference was I was bummed out for 30 seconds. Yes. I went to the bar of the hotel, had a burger, to chatted with the bartender for an hour over club soda. I didn't even realize that I was not having my ritual. Went to bed, and only the next day I was like, fuck, I lingered at the bar for two hours with club soda, right? Now, if it had been when I was drinking and I couldn't have gotten alcohol, I would have been nippling it. I would have been antsy. And by the way, that brings me about your party, and I met some people there that were earlier in their sobriety, and it made me think of sometimes we don't recall maybe enough hour, and it was for me, it was difficult early on. But so early in my sobriety when I quit drinking at first, the first couple of months, if I went to a bar because I was traveling and ate, the first thing I wanted to do is eat as fast as I could and get the hell out of there and go to bed. Yeah, yeah. Right, right away to just make this pain go away. And now not the missing, right? Right, because the missing and the the jonesing, the triggers, all that. Whereas now, and I'm saying that for some of those people that are early in sobriety and they find that sometimes difficult, and maybe we're making it sound like it's so easy. So at first, I had these experiences where it was difficult at first. And now we're 13.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

How many episodes in? You definitely have talked about multiple times. But now it was hard. And you and I have had such a completely different journey. Journey, right? And and um, wow, speaking of Annie Grace, I Oh I got yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

But I just want to say now, for those who are hopeful, a year and a half later, I I go to bars and I I don't even remember, I'm not even drinking NA wine. Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

But you are on A uh AGs was on Annie Grace's podcast, and they interviewed me, and it was um Coach Cole. But one of the things that we actually talked about was that how everybody's experience is different. Very different. And and but he asked me some really interesting questions, and actually you can you can listen to it. It's an amazing podcast. It is. I mean, she's but been around, she's one of the OGs in this in this space. Um, and I can't wait to, you know, towards the towards the second half of this season for our first season, we will be gearing up to have guests. And she's like, she's my number one, she's number one on my wish list because she started it off for so many times. But someone, when I told someone I was on, someone who listens to her podcast, This Naked Mind podcast, religiously, this person said to me, Did you cry? And I was like, What do you mean did I cry? How did you it hasn't even come out yet? How did you know that I cried? Because I did cry. And it was one of those moments where I guess I have been on a very, very joyful, alcohol-free experience. Right. Right. And I know that not everybody has that. And I know, but I've also talked about my moments where where I had a real FOMO uh in the early days of FOMO's a tough one. Of of but of seeing a gorgeous martini and remembering like my favorite was a pear martini. Like a pear flavored anything is my favorite. Got it. And it and and thinking about salivating, being being in a moment where I was like, oh, I really, really wish I could taste that. Right. But it didn't, I never got to a place where it made me too sad. Because I I'm I was able to to still latch on to okay, but tomorrow, Maxine, you're not gonna have a hangover. Right. And the joy of that is the thing that kept me going forward. It kept me going forward. But but um Cole asked me a question that made me cry on the air. And we went through the whole idea of for me, what it was was getting off the roller coaster, getting off the roller coaster of drinking, which was um and and he had said how many people they have had on who were stable drinkers, who were just drink, drink, drink, drink every day. Every day, every day, every day, every day. Versus roller coaster drinkers like me, which was, you know, binge drinking, no drinking, no drinking drinking, and then drinking too much to to to crazy excess. And and he asked me this question that no one had ever asked me before. And he said, What would you tell the younger version of you right when you had started drinking? Because I told him that I was one of those people who didn't drink alcohol until I was 20. Right. And he said, What would you tell 20-year-old Maxine? And I went back in my brain and I relived the moment of drinking for the very first time. Um, no, well, aside from my altered wine, which also made me cry, but um as as a as a 20-year-old young girl and drinking wine and how how bad that was, that first experience for me. I got really, really drunk. Um, I made a I made a really bad decision. I put myself in danger. I later learned that what happened to me was sexual assault. I all of this happened on the first time I drank alcohol. And as I went back and thought about that, I thought to myself, and I started crying. I would have just told her, skip it. Right. Skip the whole thing. You know, you you all of this one, and I don't, like you and I agree that there's no regrets. I don't look back and regret, but you said something to me recently that I loved these words you said were, I don't regret it, but there are things I would have done differently. And so for me, knowing who I am as an alcohol consumer, if I'd had the information that you are someone, when you start, you're gonna have a really hard time stopping. Right. So if I could have told 20-year-old Maxine that this experience you've had today with the very first one is indicative of the rest of your relationship with this beverage, I would have just said, you're not gonna do it. You're gonna sidestep this completely. And thinking about my young, innocent self not having this information, not knowing that I have this um way of how my body and how my brain and how everything about me relates to alcohol, how it reacts to alcohol, I didn't know. I didn't know. And so for 30 years, I rode the roller coaster without knowing.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Right. That's an interesting question to ask you because it makes me think. So different than you, in my case, I first time I drank, I was 14, 13, 14, and then I vomited. My mom had my hair, and then I never was sick ever again after that. Yes. But probably in my case, it would have been if someone had told me it was so culture ingrained. Anyways, that's the way I envisioned my culture at the time. So, because I don't want everybody, I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but maybe not, that this is what you did to fit in. Yes, right? So, if the same question that he asked, you I think if someone had told me, you can't fit in without this, right? You don't need to be still learning this because right now. Because what happened to me, I did not have a roller coaster. It was a very stable relationship, it was a very deep relationship, it was a very strong relationship, it was a very constant relationship. There was no place. There was no, there was no, there was no uh I mean, it was the most loyal relationship I've ever had, right? And to the point where you get addicted to it. And and also it's almost like in my culture where there's a part of it, maybe not now, but back then, where you accepted that you might get addicted. It's not shameful to be addicted to alcohol, as long as you don't get fucked up, which I did. Yeah, right. Um, so it's a different, it's a different experience. And and both these experiences have difficulties. In your case, getting off a roller coaster, I can't imagine how that's hard because you get used to these up and down. In my case, is that constant the physical addiction, like you know, the sleepiness. I mean, there's all kinds of things that come with a physical addiction that are not fun. And then it's like when you quit cigarettes, or you, you know, that thing was always, always, always there, and it's part of your identity, right? And it's really, and I think a lot of people, like one of your friends at your party, I think was struggling with that too. She's like, I've drank every day for the last 40 years. Yeah, it's who you are, and all of a sudden you have to be some, it feels like you have to be someone different. Yeah, and I realized that this week, I was like, I even if I want, first of all, I don't want to drink, so that takes care of that. But now the not drinking has now become my new personality. Yes, where I can't envision anything strategy.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

It would be like cheating on me, it would be strange, it would be off. So it does happen. I I I mean, I think about that all the time because I it was so attached to my identity. Right. And as not as the everyday drinker, but as a pretty girl. Correct. But like I was so identified as if you're going out with her, you are going out. And if you are going to her house, you are gonna the next day. You know, you are gonna go hard, balls to the walls. It's hard to give up an identity. My identity. Yes. And and as we have discovered, I've lost friends because that's no longer my identity. That they people who have associated that as core to me, I thought it was core to me. I thought it was core to me until I stopped drinking. And I thought a thousand times I did say it right towards the end, right when I started to get exhausted by the roller coaster. Yeah. So I would say maybe in the last two or three years, I remember saying to my husband over and over again when I had a bad, bad hangover, I would say to Andrew, God, I wish I didn't drink alcohol, but I know I can't not. I know that I can't. I used to be asked to be a little bit more. Well, you felt it was your responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

But you also probably felt it was almost like your responsibility. That that's why how do I change it? Like you can't, like you can't, you can't give that up. People are relying on this maxine. Yes. Like, and and I understand that like my my personality was different than yours on the drinking front, but it's still something you etch and you're like, like, who am I gonna give to people? And I think, like, for me, the first few months of sobriety, and I hate using that word, but of not drinking, first I had to deal with physical withdrawals, which you know, they weren't horrible, but they're there. Uh, but then, like, almost like um shedding of this, like of letting go of who you thought you were, yeah, and it's a little scared because you're like, what if people don't like that new person? Right? What if I don't like that new person? And I had decided I was gonna accept that person. And thankfully, my husband was so sweet because that's stories you hear too, where it doesn't go so well. And he was no in a marriage.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

I mean, if if you're if you're very far apart.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

And thankfully, he was like, I'm cool with that person. So I got very lucky, but then you're like, what if no one else likes me? What if my sister, my mother think I'm boring? What if my friends are like, who is this person? And I I have to do this. So that's mean I'm accepting they're not gonna like me. It's hard to accept that, and then it turns out, okay, by the way. But you know what?

SPEAKER_02 41:37

It's inevitable, right? It is inevitable with any kind of massive change like that. I mean, it's the people that you bonded with where that was core to the relationship. You're gonna have a different relationship with those people. But my big message around that is I have met new people that so far outweigh the loss. And I have mourned friendships that are different now because we we don't go out and booze all night. Right. And but the ones, the ones that I have gained, you malady, example or top of the freaking pile of new friends. I mean, I can't imagine life without you now because we have this new chapter that we, this journey that we are going on together. And we had our first happy AF club, which was our first in-person meeting. Most of those women I did not know before. And and and the people that are finding each other on this journey um are just it's like it's like I have new tennis friends since I picked up learning tennis. And we have this thing in common now, which is this sport, and we love to talk about it and we love to get together and do it together.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

It's the same. Also, for people that are listening, I unlike you, I don't have as many friends as you do because I'm much more, as I said, individualistic. Um, so my my circle of friends is much smaller. I have a lot of acquaintance, but not that many friends. And I will say so. For people who are listening, they're like, oh shit, I might lose friends, you may, but I'll be honest, in my experience, people that love you, like all 99% of my friends, and I don't have a lot. You're true friends. They stayed.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Listen, the friends that you lose because you quit drinking, work rigged.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

It's like, to be honest with you, when I look in their eyes, I can tell that they don't see a difference. I can tell that they're not warning or or they're fantastic actors.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Either one. No, no. You know what I mean? So I don't think I I think there's a very small percentage. Right. But I have spoken to people about this. Right. Who are like, I don't know how to hang out with this girl anymore. That is true. Because she only wants to still drink that much, even when she's with me. And and I that thing is like we don't have the it's like you're you're trying to play the same sport, but you're not or and the person is bothered if you don't drink.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

That's a problem. Like that the person wants to drink and you don't, if the person doesn't give two fucks, that's fine. Yeah. But when they start mining or feeling self-conscious because you're not drinking, that that can cause it.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

But here's another real positive out of the identity shift that I have experienced, and I know you have too on a personal level. I'm not even talking about on the podcast level, is that people have said to me, uh-huh, oh my God, that you did this is proof to me that I can do it too. Yes. So I have I have a really good friend who, and mostly by the way, it's been it has been women, but in the last couple of weeks, I've had I've had conversations with two men who um are very, very identified by uh their relationship with alcohol. Okay. Um one in the business, in the hospitality business and part of life in in the world of wine and restaurants. Right. And the other one who's just been really just as he said, a real heavy drinker my whole life. Right. Both of those people reached out to me. One I happened to meet the other day, and he said, Do I say to you, what do I say to you? Do I say happy sobriety? Do I say happy? I'm like, you can say you he said, Do I congratulate you? And I said, you know, you can say to me whatever you want. Yeah. But congratulations is absolutely appropriate. Because I I do feel like celebrating and I and this is a huge accomplishment. And he looked at me, and I kid you not, I know there was both fear mixed with hope in his eyes, and he said to me, I want to try. Oh, shit. I don't know how, but I want to try. Okay, and you are giving me hope. So what did you tell him to do to try it? I said, give yourself a time, give yourself a window of time. Okay. And say, for this period of time, I'm not gonna drink. And he's a drinker. Did you suggest a book or I mean, yeah, yeah, we had a long conversation. Got it. Right. Okay, so I simply have some ideas. But my takeaway was how do you want to know how I did it? Right. I said to myself, you're not gonna drink for 75 days. Right, right. And see what happens at the end.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

And if this is somebody who has never gone like a day or two, like that's something someone in my family is like trying to moderate, then that's fine. Um, you know, like not drinking a few days and stuff, and the person was like, Man, it's hard. And I was like, I know. Yep. And and and I said, I'm not saying that to try to drive you away or another, but it's actually way, and that person doesn't drink as much as I did, uh, not even close, but the daily thing, the cultural thing, right? Yeah, and um, and I was like, it's definitely more difficult than just quitting.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

I mean, and I was like, I'm not saying that to try to sway you to that person I was saying, but I was like, I know, because I tried the two days and the three days like so many times, and that's brutal. And I know for me, and I believe for that person as well, when you do that, you're just waiting for that Thursday or that Friday, and that's all you're doing the whole time. You're just buying time. And physically, if you read on all the books, that's the hardest fucking time. So you're always putting yourself in the hardest withdrawal period over and over and over.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

You never get over the half. And listen, there is the, I mean, back to Easter, that's exactly what happened with me at Easter. I would get through those 47 days with no problem because I knew there was an ended sight, right? So you're not really thinking about how alcohol plays a role in your life. You're only thinking about I'm at least 47 now, and I'm thinking about all I'm thinking about is that.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

If you're a daily drinker, even not as heavily as I was, let's say you're just drinking two glasses of wine a day, right? So, I mean, certainly, uh depending who you speak with, they're gonna say, oh, that's a problem, but you know, fine maybe, but socially it's not, right? Yes. Um, but even so, your body has gotten accustomed to these these two glasses of alcohol every day, every day. You are going to get uncomfortable physically. You will. Yeah, you're not gonna have the tremors, but I say you're gonna be uncomfortable. And if when you just take breaks two, three days every time, you're just staying in that uncomfortable zone every time. So it's brutal.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

So every one of my uh friends or acquaintances who has quit, I would say a hundred percent of them have said that that was the best thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Is removing the thinking about it. Because the moderation and, you know, as I was thinking about conversations around religion and how every single one of these big celebrations like Easter and Christmas and Passover. Oh my gosh, I have a God, yeah. You're a Passover story. You told me you'd sound something. Um, they're all, you know, they're all associated with religion, they're all associated with alcohol. And here's the crazy thing that I'd never even thought about it before. And I would love to delve into this when we do have a guest someday who can really talk about it. Like an historian or a theological who can talk about this. But like when you think about Catholicism, and that's the one I can speak to because that's what I was raised in. And the first time I was given alcohol was on the altar at eight years old, and I cried my eyes out because I thought I was drinking fucking poison. I was drinking poison, but I didn't know it. And it was tastes so, so bad to me. And my mother was like, You can't spit it out. I was holding it in my mouth. I wanted to spit it out, and it was it's the blood of Christ. And I'm like, What? And then you think about religion and how they give it to you in the ceremony, they give it in the ceremony, but then they're frowning upon drunkenness, so they're giving you this addictive substance.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Wait, until I just answered it. You yeah, that's exactly what it is. What they give you something you like and then they take it away. That's how they exert power on you. I'm gonna take it away.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Oh, that. And in in and in in the Catholic religion, which is the the wine is the blood symbolizing the blood of Christ, and but then you know, you're you're not supposed to get drunk. So you're giving an addictive substance and saying, moderate. Right. Like that is the problem that we have uncovered with so many of us, is we cannot moderate with this substance.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

No, because it's by the way, it's an addictive substance. And just like, you know, I told you earlier that drinking wine at the altar, that actually I remembered this, like because you texted me a few days ago. I was on a plane saying, hey, we'll talk about Easter because we're about Easter. And it it popped in my head this memory, which is quite funny, actually. There's a very photographic memory of me and my dad at church when he was still going, because my father became an atheist in the 90s, and that was that, right? Atheist. He went the baby in the bath water, everybody went. Yeah, yeah, big time atheist. But uh, when he was still like drinking the Kool-Aid, we're in church, and and you know, back then they used to have the little bread thing and and the chalice of wine. And I was maybe seven-ish or eight. And uh, I said to my dad, I was like, Oh, I want to taste that. And my dad at church goes, Oh no, don't taste that one. I'll give you some good stuff. Because it's so bad. It's so bad. And in his head, it was like, it was still like wine is a delicious thing. Don't waste your wine thinking at seven. Don't be thinking that's why. Hey, get it. I'll show you the rope. That was really funny.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

It's um, well, as you know, so my my husband's family uh are Jewish, and so that's it. But that Manashevitz is is the Jewish wine, but I don't actually know what it's made out of. I mean, it's also made out of grapes, yes, but it's the sweetest, most vile wine. I mean, and it's famous. Andrew used to say. Do they drink it, drink it, or they just put their little six? So you do little little sips of it, got it, you know, over Passover, um, which is coming up. So Passover and Easter, of course, are usually really close to each other, really close to each other, um, because it's all from that time in history. And uh listen, I'm also an atheist. So Are you atheist?

SPEAKER_01 52:19

I believe in God, but not not the guy with a beard that was a papa of Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

I mean, I say this all the time. I think I think it's really important to respect everyone's beliefs. And and having been raised in a Catholic house, a very strict cat Catholic house, having been uh schooled in a Catholic convent boarding school. Oh god. Um, I was I was so I was all in. I mean, to the point that the nuns in my school thought I was gonna be a nun. Oh, Jesus. Um I was I was Miss Little, you know, I was I used to go to mass every day. I sang and led all the hymns in my school. Like I was very, very religious. Yeah. I was I was I was all all in. And then I joke with Andrew. Now I say, and then I met Neil deGrasse Tyson. Who's that? The astrophysicist. Oh, Neil, oh the guy who went to the movie. And and and I and I watched The Cosmos and I read all of his books, and I was like, guys, come on.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

It's so funny. So it's so funny. That was my first thoughts or doubts about religion. And again, I respect all religions. I don't agree with them. I just respect them. I'm like, hey, man, to each your own. But I remember asking my dad, if the whole world did that, we would remember when I was like eight or nine, you know, that I went to Catholic school too because private school back then was all Catholic. So even though my parents who were like, they were religious, but not a ton, and then they became a theist. My dad did. My mom is more like me, she's spiritual, right? Yes. Uh, but Catholicism went like off the window in the 80s. But um, I remember I was like, again, seven or eight, and they added this special on TV with a scientist that explained the evolution of the planet. And you see, now it starts like they came out of the water, they started growing life. I mean, you can't understand. And then, right, and I look at my dad. My dad was watching it with me, and he's like, What my dad's is an accountant, and he was a charter accountant, but he's like big in science. And we're like into it, and he's explaining me like the stuff I didn't understand. So when it was over, and I was like, So then where's the part about Adam and Eve? And he's like, Well, that's the story they tell you, but that's the real deal. But I was like, how about an Eve? You know, he's like, Well, that's how they're trying to explain what really happened. And I remember that's like that was starting to be the crack that the Bible was a bunch of stories. But how old were you? Like seven or eight. Okay, so then he started telling me, he's like, you know, the Bible's like, it's good that you know it because it gives you good tricks. Because, like, to be nice and not cheating just but he was like listen, there's a lot of good stuff in the world. But he's like, he's like a lot of it is stories so that you understand stuff. Yes. And then it was clear enough what he was saying is like the whole thing is bullshit, but it's good philosophy. That's what he was saying, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Um listen, I am a big fan of taking the great things from different religions. Yes. And and um, but so unlike you, I was fully steeped to the exclusion of every other religion. Because growing up in Ireland, everybody's Catholic. Yes. Or you're Protestant, in which case plus you guys had to fight to preserve your identity. Yes, I can understand you become insular. But we didn't have exposure. There was zero exposure to other religions. Right, right, right. And you know, the first time I met someone um of the Islamic faith, I was 20 in my early 20s. My b best friend in law school has a whole other story which we talk about someday about traveling. Um, but uh when I met Andrew, when I met Andrew, I've told this story, it was Lent, right? Uh, but that year, or I don't know if it was that year or it was the next year, I went to, he said, Would you like to come to Passover? And I said, I would, I would love to. That, you know, that's very kind of your family to include me. And I was trying to be really gracious, but I was terrified. Oh, yeah? I was terrified because I had never ever been exposed to the Jewish faith, to Jayism, the practices, the um uh anything. I knew nothing, nothing about it. It was I was never told about it. I never had an occasion to read about it. So anyway, we're selling he we're going to Passover, we're living in New York City at the time, and uh he said, I'll pick you up and we'll drive out to my aunt's house out in Long Island. And we're on our way out there, and and I and I said to him, he said to me actually, he was like, Are you okay? You you seem a little off, you seem a little quiet, which is very unusual for me. Yeah. And I was like, I'm a little nervous. And he was like, Oh my god, what are you nervous about? And I said, I've never been to a Passover, and I'm just I'll be really uncomfortable if there's gonna be Jesus bashing.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Oh, I'll tell you my Jewish story after that. That's really funny. Oh my god, wait, wait, that needs to sink in. They did kill baby Jesus, and you're like, they can't talk about my man and his back. That is so sweet. You were protecting your people. I was feeling I was, but I mean, the ignorance, the fucking hysterical. So I got to my butt you were sweet, dude. I got to my 30s. Don't touch Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

Like, you know, no, no, listen, for all the things that are going on, I I can't be sitting around a table where people are Jesus passing. And Andrew looked over at me with complete disbelief. And he was like, How has this woman gotten to be this age in life? She's got a graduate law degree. She's traveled all over the world, and she thinks we sit around back to Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

You know what he said to me?

SPEAKER_01 57:54

It probably was like, oh man, he's such an asshole. And remember what he was wearing the other day and he showed up late on my way. You know what he said to me?

SPEAKER_02 58:00

When you said to me, he was like, um, he doesn't even come up.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

He doesn't. It's a little bit of a sore subject. The babies are just among the Jewish faith. It's not something that's not something they need to revisit. We don't even talk about it. Yeah, they don't like to revisit that. Yeah. So where I grew up, like I grew up in a neighborhood down very close to downtown Montreal. And it's like an old ritzy neighborhood. By that time, my parents had come up in ranks and stuff. And very interestingly, so French Canadians by culture are non-practicing Catholics, right? So let's call it like that. And this is the second largest um uh ascitic community after Williamsburg. Oh, wow. Why I've Googled the hell out of why would a bunch of ascitic Jewish people want to live with French Canadian Catholics? I have no idea. And it's it's hundreds of years. Right. Hundreds of years. It's not like yesterday happened. And I can't find an answer on Google. Like the rest of Canada is anglophone, at least, you know, because they mainly speak Hebrew, but their second language is English, not French. So they don't communicate with us, zero. And there's more Jewish in the English community. Like, there's an English community that's wealthy that's called Westmount, and it's like Ruffman's and Bronffmans, they're very wealthy, but at least they're Jewish, right? And that's like literally a mile away. Like, why aren't they going there? I don't like like the pain they're imposing on themselves to live with a bunch of Catholics, French, Canadians. So we were very, very familiar with the Jewish faith because we were surrounded in it. They wouldn't talk to us because they're very, very conservative, right? They're not like your run-of-the-mill. Uh but they, you know, and every Saturday when they're Shabbat, they wear like the big hats and all that. But I never I'll never forget. So coming home from the clubs, and when I was 16, 17, 18 years old, and I come home, like take the subway and walk home a little tipsy and stuff. And this is an old historic type neighborhoods, you know, like 300 years old or whatever. So there's a lot of alleys, you know, it's all nice townhouses. And you'd see and like always inevitably, uh, and I like if people think that I'm being anti-Semite, I apologize, but that's what we saw. It would be like a station wagon and a couple of ascitic Jewish people, like drinking booze and smoking cigarettes, like late at night, like hiding. Yes. And it was like, I remember like we'd it was like shocking, right? Because then during the day they're like so, you know, entranced in their faith, and you know, they wouldn't even talk to us because we're impure, because we're different faith and very, very religious. But then at night in the blank under the blanket of night, right, and darkness, they would be partying it up, just like me and my buddies, right? So religious is a it's an interesting, like and the Catholics would do the same thing, by the way, right? Except, you know, maybe not on the back alley, but different. Yeah, so it's funny what we do for religion and what we hide for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Absolutely, absolutely. It's it's crazy. Um, and there's clearly so much more we can talk about. But we were at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

They were not bashing baby Jesus because I listened, and they were boy, they're being good by learned that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

And now I live in a my uh, as I call my American family. We we celebrate Passover, we celebrate Easter, we celebrate Hanukkah, we celebrate Christmas, we celebrate the traditions of all of our families, with or without you know, uh the religious element. Um, but anyway, um I so yeah, uh here's to here's to just I think respecting. Imagine again, I just said, like, imagine we all just respected each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

And there's not hard to do that. It's not, it's not why do we all have to agree? No, we don't we don't have to agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

We don't have to agree, but we agree on this. Oh, that we agree on this. We agree on this, and we agree that this multi is very good. Fantastic. Yeah, I like it. Um, I love it. I love our um beautiful new glasses. Shout out to uh Heather who gifted me these. Oh, Heather? Know when I met at your party? Yes, yes, so nice. And uh cheers to everyone. Have a wonderful alcohol-free time. Keep sending us your questions. We're gathering a whole bunch of questions. We're gonna do a whole QA session. Um, we're so grateful to everyone who's on this journey, who's listening, who's inspired, and mostly who are entertained because that's what we're here for. We are not wellness gurus, we are not psychiatrists, we're just two, as I say, two women who broke up with booze, and we're here to tell tell our stories. And we will be back with the next episode. I'm Maxine. Uh I am here, I am happy, alcohol free.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

I'm Isabel, happy Easter. Keep it AF and happy Easter as fuck, too. Cheers. Bye.

unknown 1:02:46

I wanna be happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

I wanna be happy, happy.